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Hyun Woo Kim's avatar

Your essay is such a fun surprise also in that I was having a conversation with somebody a few hours ago that I should see her in Hangzhou. By the way, "勝事空自知" is such a tricky line to translate, isn't it? "勝事" means a happy occurence, and I believe it refers to the scenery which the poetic narrator gets to enjoy by himself. I like it that you interpretated it as "small victories". Meanwhile, it seems "空" here does not mean air in this poem. As 自 is often an adverb, not a (pro)noun, I think "空" must be an adverb too, describing the manner in which he perceives(知) the "勝事". In other words, he perceives it on his own and in a disinterested manner.

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clare chai's avatar

What a coincidence! or is it ;)

Your comment makes me even more curious… how did you learn Chinese?? I feel like Chinese as a modern language is difficult enough to learn, let alone ancient Chinese poetry 😅

I did have a discussion with the husband over that line— where 勝事 was internal or environment joys (also reminds me of 辛夷塢, another of my favourite poems by him). Ooh, the empty self; to me, that’s quite Buddhist/Zen. I do believe Wang Wei was quite a zen-like poet.

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Hyun Woo Kim's avatar

Naturally, my interpretation of "勝事" would be that it is external in its origin, though internalized in the end. I acknowledge that my prejudice toward Wang Wei is at work here, but his poetic narrator seems to be an 'empty' self. For instance, although 來 is often a mere grammatical particle in Classical Chinese, the literal meaning of "興來" could be 'pleasure comes'. In other words, Wang Wei's poetic narrator is not an agent of what he feels. He is but a passive recipient. Every time("每") the pathos visits him, he walks, as if he has no will of his own. This is why he does not actively give meaning to the "勝事": he perceives it 空-wise, which does not contradict "自知" for him.

I did take Classical Chinese classes in middle school, but it did not help too much to be honest. We learned too little during the given time. I just read lots of Classical Chinese texts on my own, and at a certain point they began to make sense for me. The ancient Chinese were right, after all. "必當先讀百遍 言讀書百遍而意自見"!

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clare chai's avatar

Hyun Woo- then again, I know that I overlay my personal experiences onto the poems I read (so it may not be the “correct” interpretation… but then again is there a right or wrong in poetry?). For example, with Wang Wei, I come at it from a Buddhist perspective and also I’m reminded one of my favourite quotes from Virginia Woolf with 勝事- “The great revelation perhaps never did come. Instead, there were little daily miracles, illuminations, matches struck unexpectedly in the dark”. BTW- would love to interview you on your translation/chinese learning/fav poetry if you’re ever interested. Do let me know if you are :)

Books and Musicque- I know exactly how you feel about 🙈 I’ve only come appreciate chinese lit through Su Shi in recent years. But also, I really enjoy drawing comparisons between East and West (it’s like wise/literary people all over the world ~think/feel similar in some way) The last poem in this post 蝶戀花 actually made me think of TS Eliot’s the wasteland (the pain of the seasons, or changing seasons, rather) but I just thought it was toooo much for one post haha.

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Hyun Woo Kim's avatar

I do believe reading Wang Wei from a Buddhist perspective is the safe way to go :) Regarding the interview, please DM me. I am interested.

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Books and Musicque's avatar

Pardon me for interrupting, just popping in to say I enjoy this discussion and you're so inspiring Hyun Woo! I feel quite ashamed of myself now being a chinese but know next to nothing about 古诗 save the few bits that we learned in school. To pick up the language and study the classical texts on your own! That is so impressive and inspiring! Makes me slightly more hopeful that one day I might be able to pick up Russian and read their classics too ;D

I have always wanted to go back to my roots, read more chinese classics and brush up on the history, but I'm too enamoured with the western canon at this moment 😅 It's such a delight finding this little corner sharing chinese classics on substack <3

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Hyun Woo Kim's avatar

I actually majored in Russian! Learning Russian is so worth it. I would say you should definitely go for it. To quote Turgenev, "о великий, могучий, правдивый и свободный русский язык!"

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Lilly's avatar

Hey Clare,

This was the first story I've read on your Substack and man, what a feeling. You write so softly, so poignantly, in a way I can taste all the delicious details and your sinewy bits of thought poured into it.

Anyway, thank you for this beautiful piece. It left me feeling like how it feels like watching the credits roll after a damn good movie. You just sit there, reeling. At the end of this, I was thinking to myself: It *is* possible to feel strangely connected to a stranger, just through her writing alone. You've created a beautiful world in this story and I'm grateful to have dwelled in it, even for awhile.

Thanks <3

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clare chai's avatar

Hey Lilly!

Aww thank you, I’m way too flattered 🙈 It is times like this I remember why I publish writing online. I’ve been in a writing rut as of late, hopefully some inspiration will strike soon..

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Lily Pond's avatar

Beautifully written travelogue with a poetic thread running through it. Hangzhou is my birthplace (born on the shore of West Lake), but I only know it through photos and all the landscape paintings my father did when he was an art student and artist there. (If you want to see how Hangzhou looked like in the 50s and 60s, just ask). I can still speak the dialect though. I had a chance to visit Hangzhou about 10 years ago and reconstruct my long-lost childhood memories. I agree with you that the crowd was a challenge! But it wasn't too, too bad, perhaps I was used to the crowds in Hong Kong all my life. What bothered me more was the air pollution just outside of West Lake. I felt sick just from breathing. The poems you mentioned were my childhood favorites. I learned to appreciate Chinese poetry before I studied English litetrature. I used to write Chinese poems inspired by the Tang dynasty poets sitting in the toilet, the only place where I could have some peace and privacy! I even dreamed of a hermetic life of a poet when I grew up. Later on I abandoned this interest for English literature. This tribute you made to Chinese poetry brings back so much nostalgia!

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clare chai's avatar

Thank you for sharing Louisa, hearing your stories is like having an insider’s view of Hangzhou :)) It’s so cool that your father went to art school there, I remember friends there saying that the art school was one of the most famous and hard-to-get-in art schools in the country… I wonder what the experience was like. And yes I would love to see photos! 🥰

I think 10 or so years ago air pollution was really bad (I read anecdotes that school kids then never knew what a blue sky was like as they never saw one), but it’s cleared up somewhat now.

I love that little younger self of yours writing poetry!! It’s a much more worthwhile pastime than scrolling away on smartphones in the toilet 😂

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Lily Pond's avatar

Hi Clare, I'm glad you found my stories interesting. Yes, my father went to the best art school in China. Apparently he had a wonderful time. During his university years, he managed to travel around the country to do sketches, including Urumqi and Dunhuang (where the Buddha statutes in caves are).

Here you can see a small sample of his paintings:

https://wahansa.wixsite.com/azentsang/portfolio

Ooooh, I'm surprised to hear that the air has cleared up some in Hangzhou. I was worried that it would get worse and worse over time.

Ha ha, indeed! Writing poems seems to be a better use of time than scrolling on smartphones, which unfortunately is what I do more than writing poetry nowadays! But I keep my phone out of the toilet, LOL! Have you heard of Game Boys? Well, that was the first electronic device I ever had and I did play it in the toilet. It was addictive!

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Tyagarajan S's avatar

Beautifully written. This only increases my desire to visit China!

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Tyagarajan S's avatar

I relate to this. I have / had a similar hatred for humidity and I still can't deal with it especially when it starts getting hot. But, despite my protests, over the last four years in Thailand I've been the healthiest I've ever been and I've begrudgingly come to accept that humidity may have played a not so small role in that. The visual aspects of a humid place, lush tropical vegetation, the slightly mouldy, occasional green tinged edges of old buildings are all totems of happiness for me somehow now.

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clare chai's avatar

i like your descriptions too! how is humidity related to health though, i wonder…

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Books and Musicque's avatar

The only poem that pops up in my mind whenever Hangzhou is mentioned is this:

水光潋滟晴方好,山色空蒙雨亦奇。

欲把西湖比西子,淡妆浓抹总相宜。

It’s another one from 苏轼, it’s probably too basic hahah

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clare chai's avatar

Yes, that’s the classic right! You know, I actually didn’t know of this poem until after going there 🙈 I guess we travel to learn…

Thanks for stopping by and sharing~ ^^

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Books and Musicque's avatar

This is very interesting, I know none of the poems you shared (but I love them), and you didn't know the only poem that I know of this topic 😆 haha! And great job translating them, it's so difficult to convey and retain their essence in English!

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Caroline Young's avatar

Humidity always transports me to summers in Asia with the muggy heat and the occasional downpours bringing relief - your essay and selection of poems fill me with longing for the clime

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clare chai's avatar

Hi there Caroline! Thanks for leaving such a kind comment ☺️ You know, I remember reading one of your essays and you described Taiwan as (don’t remember the words exactly) as being humid and ducking inside convenience stores to hide from the rain, and for some reason that scene stuck with me for days, like it was a scene out of a movie or drama or something.

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Becky Isjwara's avatar

I relate to your humidity-emotional-meter

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clare chai's avatar

you should have come along with me to Hangzhou then 😜

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Jeffrey Streeter's avatar

This is beautiful, Claire. I loved the paintings and the poems and your reflections on the weather. I remember the soft rain in Hangzhou so well. As you say, the lake is best appreciated in such weather. And thank you for the kind mention, too!

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clare chai's avatar

Thank you for dropping by and leaving such kind words, Jeffrey! It means a lot.

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clare chai's avatar

Thank you for sharing Louisa 💕💕 Your father’s paintings are very interesting; I was expecting them to be in the chinese classical painting style but some of them are painted in quite a western/modern style (almost cubist??), fascinating mix of different backdrops and painting styles.

I think the push towards electric vehicles and the clampdown on factory emissisons probably did some of the trick. On an unrelated note, the electric buggies that took people around the west lake were also decorated in chinese style and were so cute https://gs.ctrip.com/html5/you/article/detail/27975282.html

Ah, the golden days of the gameboy….

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Jul 13
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clare chai's avatar

Thank you for dropping by ToFu! XD I wonder how they take them when there's so many people... 江城子 is one that I'm thinking of, it's prob the only poem (in Eng or Chinese) that's moved me to tears. I don't know what magic he does with his words, but the imagery just hits me in a particular way.

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